My dad raised me with very, very old-fashioned values. Don’t call boys, don’t pursue men, certainly don’t let men pay for too much or they might think you owe them something, never stay under the same roof with a man you aren’t married to and only prostitutes wear boots (Due to this last assertion, my sassy boots stay in the car when I visit. The paramedic guys may be really cute in Southern Cali, but I can hold off on needing to call them because I caused my dad to have a heart attack.)
You (and I) may not agree with all of his assertions (especially the boot thing) but there are some areas where he actually knows what he’s talking about. Insights like “Don’t let the guys pick you,” “It’s just too much pressure on men to feel like your life revolves around them, so have a life,” “Character is everything,” “Women can not change men,” and “Men can never be pushed in your direction.” Conflicting? Passive? On the surface, perhaps. But as I thought about the “passive” role that women typically take in American dating culture, I started to figure out that my dad was actually promoting a very non-passive approach to dating. I like it.
Don’t let the guys pick you: I’m not supposed to chase boys, but I AM supposed to pick them. Whaaaa? It may have taken a few years (try 10) but now I get it. This one has everything to do with directing your “flirt” in the right direction and actively take a role in who asks you out. By letting boys pick me in the past, I went for a pretty crazy dating ride. When I took the reins back a few years ago, I didn’t do it by starting to chase men… I did it by becoming more selective and directing my attention in the appropriate directions. The roller coaster became much more like an exciting zip line ride instead. (Not to be confused with the dumb but appropriate bungee jumping the recent Bachelor and Bachelorette have been doing. Up and down is not my idea of a fun dating pattern.)
It’s just too much pressure on men to feel like your life revolves around them, so have a life: I finally really started to understand this concept when I compared it to the job hunt when you have a job vs. when you’re unemployed. The desperation is palpable when you NEED something versus WANTing something. By having a life, you don’t send out that “need, need, need to suck you dry” vampire vibe. When I made the shift, I started attracting the men who really, really want to be wanted but don’t need to be needed. It’s a subtle but powerful distinction (and for some reason attracts men who like Family Guy.)
Character is everything: You guys have read what I think about this one. In a nutshell, if you don’t have it, get some!
Women can not change men: Truer words have never been spoken. Women… it’s easier to make your shoe size smaller than to change a man. If he wants to change, he will. But the only true change happens within someone’s heart, by their own desire and it’s not anything you can accomplish for them. (Of course, that doesn’t mean you have to passively accept him being an idiot. Boundaries are crucial for retaining dating sanity.)
Men can never be pushed in your direction: Frustrated with a waiting game I found myself in, I called my dad to talk about it. After me telling him all the things I WANTED to say to this errant gentleman, he just stopped me and said none of them would work because men can’t be pushed. Being the alpha/gamma type I naturally am, waiting in any form while not communicating my thoughts about it remains a challenge. Knowing this about me, my dad reminded me that you can lead a horse to water but can’t make them drink. Yes, he compared the man in this situation to a horse. But you know what, he’s right. I didn’t have to passively sit by and wait for the guy to figure it out, so I kept moving on with my life knowing that if he did catch up, it was because he wanted to get that drink of water and saddled up.
So, in all actuality… dating isn’t passive for either side. It may look like women are “supposed to be” passive, but it takes a lot of woman power to flirt charmingly while not appearing to be straddling the proverbial bull horns.
Good advice! ….except for the boots part. Since he doesn’t live in Texas I’ll forgive him for not understanding the wonder that is stylish boots. (BTW,….My next pair will be made out of Carpincho which is a rat like animal from Argentina and lime green tops = heaven!……….or maybe hippo or giraffe,….sooo many options!)
Amen on point #2!!!!
Can’t stand women who henpeck in the name of “improving” you. Besides being a non-Christian that would have to be the biggest turn off for me.
Boot Guy — I think I am a little scared about your next boot selection… but to every boot, there is an owner
As for the hen-peckers… it’s an issue and I have yet to meet a guy who likes one.
The character and integrity thing is probably the most overlooked on that list
Your dad sounds like a total rock star. Love it…
He would love to know that a “modern” alpha woman thinks he’s a rock star *grin*
And yes, it’s amazing to me the amount of singles who over-look the character thing and then are shocked when they get into a marriage or relationship with someone who lies, cheats, etc. Character’s the biggest one on the list… for both myself and the people I date!
Love advice from dad’s! The best advice my dad ever gave me was “nothing good ever happens after midnight.”
Side commentary – my dad raised me to be nearly the polar opposite of the woman he chose to marry. This only recently occurred to me and when I asked about it he simply said “life is different now.” Since that exchange I’ve had several conversations with guy friends where we compare what they want in a woman against what they want for their sisters/children. In most cases they are far from equal.
Ooooo — that’s another one I heard. And also the one that got me grounded the most in high school.
Come to think of it, my dad also raised me to be the opposite of my mom. Self-sufficient, business minded, independent, etc. I’ll have to ask him sometime why that is. I think he may think like your dad does — times have changed.
How does what your friends want in a mate differ from what they want for a loved one? I’d be interested to know…
Well, the things they want vs what they want for a loved one don’t so much differ in the what as they do in priority of the what. Regardless of what most men say, when it comes to choosing a mate looks are the most important (followed by varying order of humor, fun, athletic, and typically smart comes in the bottom of a top 10 – sidebar – A lot of guys say they want smart, but VERY few actually walk that walk). When my guy friends discuss what they want for me (their friend) or a sister or other relative or female friend their list is far different. Smart/successful and loyal are top two. Humor/fun close behind. Looks? “It’s not about looks, looks fade.” Really? Then why did you stay with model/hot chic for so long when she was so awful? Why are your current choices all fluff (i.e. hot) and little substance? It’s a harsh reality and clearly not across the board. Again, i’m 31 and been single for a long time. What do I know?
Unfortunately, you are dead on target. And I’m no exception to your rule…. Again, unfortunately.
You (and even I) can criticize men all you (we?) want, but the truth remains: a guy generally needs to be physically attracted to a women — at least long enough to get to know her well enough to be strongly attracted to her in additional ways such as character, personality, and all the things you mentioned. I wish it wasn’t true – even of myself – but it is.
Now, that said, a guy that pursues a women he’s physically attracted to, ignoring that she’s a rotten egg (sorry – better description escapes me now) – well, he’s being foolish and deceived. And I’ve been there too, though I can get turned off with just a couple foul words (or attitude) out of a woman’s mouth that reveal her inner character.
Now at an older age, I will still notice and be attracted to an attractive women, but I will only truly “light up” when I hear of or witness something that reveals her inner beauty. However, I’m still subject to needing to be physically attracted to her to really be interested.
I think most guys I’ve ever talked to work this way and understand the point I’m making, but it just stands to help no one for them to make this point to close female friends that don’t get it. Even “not so nice” guys don’t want to alienate their various female friends.
Not sure if I feel compelled or a little guilty (or defensive) but I wanted to clarify that a girl does NOT have to be a 9.5 (or any ‘rank’) to catch a guy’s interest.
Case in point: in the last 6 months there were a couple girls that I asked out that weren’t necessarily what I might be most physically attracted to, but other great qualities caught my attention. In one case I just loved talking to her – she fascinated me, and I was blown away by her personality. In the other, we have a mutual old, good friend and we all went and did some fun things outside where I got to know her a little. One of these girls turned me down cold. The other, we’re still just getting to know each other.
Be encouraged girls: Be your self, take care of your self (physically and otherwise), and put your best foot forward.
No need to be defensive ski pants
I’m not complaining or criticizing, only calling a spade a spade. We all have our preferences and most are rooted in things we often don’t fully understand – we like what we like and there’s little value (in my opinion) in trying to dissect it. “Figuring out” the logic behind anyone’s process for mate choosing is likely going to result in a shoulder shrug and a continuation of the same behavior. My original point was simply that I find it deeply interesting that a father’s choice in a wife would be so far from his choices in raising a daughter. *Maybe* the difference stems from something so simple as the married relationship is “me” centric, whereas the parent/child relationship is “you” centric. Deep thoughts by me. Or possibly complete bullshit 
Sounds like the kind of advice I’d would want any daughter I would have to receive.
Another great column – Thanks!
Thanks GC — good to hear from you again
Absolutely loved this post – excellent post.
Thanks!
You ended saying women are not to be passive. I agree! However, I think women are to be ‘responsive’ (not passive). These two things are very different.
A few songs and poems have been written likening ‘the dance’ to the interaction in a relationship. In a dance, the women responds to and takes cues from the man’s leading – but she isn’t a rag doll! (Oh, how boring that would be.) I’ve been told by a close friend who’s a great dancer and used to compete in ballroom dance that it’s really hard to be a good ‘follow’. I’m sure the same is true for a good partner in a relationship.
It took me YEARS to learn the “follow” correctly on the dance floor and from time to time I’ll still catch myself back-leading if I don’t have a strong lead. But it’s funny… now that I’ve un-learned the lead, I can no longer teach a guy how to dance… it’s like my brain just won’t go there. I wonder if it’s similar for the dating dance you’re talking about?
I think it could be similar… but I agree that if you don’t have a strong lead, you (or any girl) may resort to trying to take the lead.
Of course, this is where we men always need to learn to lead in a positive way (w/o controlling/commanding/etc.). I think there’s a lot of room (and need) for good communication in the relationship on this topic in terms of what’s perceived, expected, appreciated!, desired, needed, etc.
Good advice from your Dad. I’ll add something to the phrase,
“You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.” Heard that during a class I had and the professor said that to a man who was in his audience. The man’s reply to the professor, “But you can feed the horse salt.”, an element that triggers thirst.
In dating going back to what you said about being “selective and directive”, The salt is a picture of a woman, as you had mentioned selectively inviting a certain man of interest to initiate with her in a conversation. The man initiates and the woman receives and responds, and the process moves forward from that point.
I could really stir the pot by asking if a woman is being selective and directive, does her invitation to initiate amount to being in violation of “Don’t chase boys” or “Don’t pursue men *Grin*
Nah…just disregard that last little comment and keep the process simple.
You invite us to jump down the rabbit hole with that question!
Directing the “flirt” properly…Huh..that is dating gold, if I do say so myself.
So question…what made your dad think about boots that way? Haha
Thanks… it’s been hard won dating gold for me. *grin*
As for my dad… he grew up in Southern California in a neighborhood that could look across the “tracks” with very little effort. Perhaps, growing up, the only women he saw wearing boots were actual prostitutes.
“It may look like women are “supposed to be” passive, but it takes a lot of woman power to flirt charmingly while not appearing to be straddling the proverbial bull horns.”
Truer words were never spoken. I’m still trying to figure out how to reconcile being an alpha who wants to be rescued!
Me too High Heels, me too…
“Directing the flirt …” ..
What do you think about just developing really solid, respectful and fun friendships with guys you like, respect, etc.? I know it’s frustrating when they don’t respond the way you want then to, but we men, while not as perceptive, are definitely looking for a women we’re attracted to, to ‘give us the time of day’, and above all we have a natural need for ‘respect’.
In the last year there was someone I would have liked to ask out but did not because, while we were decent friends, it was clear from her actions and subtle acts of disrespect that she wasn’t interested in me romantically. My assumptions have been confirmed & we’re still friends, which I truly appreciate.
Friendships are great, but usually… end up staying in the “friend zone.” All too often– once you’ve been defined as a friend… attention turns to not so “friend” girls or guys for potential romance.
I have seen guys grow a friendship AND romance by being very very direct and intentional about how they communicate and pursue the girl. They never get lazy and let it slide into the friend zone. It’s a hard line to walk, but do-able, I think. Men want respect — absolutely. Women want to know that they are wanted — most definitely.
I struggle (at least in my younger years) with the line between letting a women know I’m interested (same as letting her know she’s wanted?) and pursuing a women too much. It seems to me that many women have a low tolerance for undesired attention. It’s not always so clear to me whether the attention is wanted/appreciated or not (of course other times it is quite clear). I’m learning to be more confident in general, but it’s frustrating to read some girls. (I’m confident in myself in general, but always so when being around someone I’m very distracted to {typo intentional}.)
Ooops, typo. I thought I wrote:
“(I’m confident in myself in general, but NOT always so when being around someone I’m very distracted to {typo intentional}.)”
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I love your Dad! Lots of wisdom and the kind of intelligence rarely found in men these days. I fantasize about having a parent that gives such good advice. Great blog.
Thanks — he’s pretty great.