While catching up on some of my favorite blogs this weekend, I ran across an interesting comment string about truth and lies in dating. Simone, a NYC dating blogger, related a story about how she discovered that one of her recent dates lied about his age on his online profile. She went ahead with the date anyway, not caring about his actual age (it was well within her parameters) but a little more wary due to the initial lie about it. Assorted follies happened over the next week or two and Mr. Nicepost became a footnote in her blog history before they ever got to the third date.
But, as the comments got rolling, a definite dichotomy in opinion emerged. One side claimed that “everyone lies” so what’s the big deal while the other side used lies as huge warning signs to not proceed. It was an interesting comment string, to say the least.
In the midst of this string of posts and comments, several statements stood out to me and I’m interested to know if you agree with any of the commenters I’ve quoted below…
“It’s a big fat red flag when the dating profile has lies in it.”
“Everybody lies. Doesn’t matter who you are, we all lie. It’s just human nature, duplicity is a fundamental flaw in us as a race. The question that must always be asked is whether someone’s lying because of selfish motives or for the greater good.”
“It’s true, a small lie is an indicator. It starts with a small one and in the end the big ones follow. I’m ok about putting a little make-up on the truth, but a flat lie is not a good base for something serious.”
“People lie, that’s a constant. It’s the level of the lie that is the indicator of how much they can be trusted.”
If you want to know what happened with Simone’s “Mr. Nicepost,” definitely check out her blog (it’s not exactly PG-13 if you get easily offended.) But aside from all the shenanigans, I’m really interested in this relative truth idea. Do you believe that everyone lies? Does it matter to you what the motive is behind the lie? To what level is a lie acceptable? For example, lying about age = harmless, but lying about fitness = deal breaker? Or is any lie a deal breaker? Do you find yourself accepting your own lies and condemning other’s?
I definitely have my own opinions about it, and if you read Simone’s comment string or too many of my past blogs, you’ll know where I fall on this equation… but what do you think? Does everybody lie? Can you ever trust a “liar?”
I find that people that tend to lie believe that everyone lies and are shocked when lying is taken as an offense.
And I have noticed that people who tell little white lies often will go on to bigger lies if they feel the situation calls for it.
Personally, I do not lie, and when I know people around me are lying, I have trouble completely believing anything they say from there on out.
Here here! I was shocked to see the amount of justifying going on for lies… for me if you lie about little things… you WILL lie about big things if the penalty for truth is high enough. Yes, sometimes telling the truth really sucks — especially when I’ve messed up — but I’d rather keep track of the real story than waste a bunch of time and energy trying to track the fake ones.
A lie is a lie is a lie — especially in dating or in any type of relationship buliding.
It doesn’t work — period.
I cannot or will not trust some one telling lies to me on any scale and surely will not take them seriously.
That doesn’t sit with me well. I’d always feel like, with having such a person around me, I’d never be able to trust them and that they obviously don’t trust me with their truths.
How can you build something based on lies — based on any lie?
Henry Cloud talks about it in his Boundaries in Dating book — about how any relationship with lies is no relationship at all. I tend to agree… I mean how are you supposed to lean into a relationship with someone who may or may not be lying to you at any given time? Even if they do have “good” intentions — that just means they don’t trust me to handle something or know something that I obviously need to know in order to have a full picture.
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It frustrates me that so many people cannot be honest with themselves about the fact that they lie. It’s absurd. Yes, you do!
I find it’s mostly people whose lies tend to be white lies to help others feelings rather than those who tell selfish whoppers who get offended when it is asserted that they lie and are grouped in with everyone else bluntly.
I also find an extreme correlation between liars like this, being far too easily offended by almost anything, and having a hyperactive jealousy element within ones typical relationship personality (envy complex). The three things work together so merely by writing these arguably undeniable truths supported by every scientific analysis ever done (that didnt lie) I will have offended several previous posters whose own lies to themselves were propogated to us in a desperate attempt to preserve their own self-image.
The issue for me is always where a person draws the line on lying and why they lied and its damn hard to sleuth this out because you have to call attention to the other person’s lie and this is difficult without being judgemental. I find humor and acceptance is critical for this process and thus these factors tend to exclude the holier-than-thou types that suppose, incorrectly, that they do not lie.
My favorite easy way to demonstrate this scenario is the classic situation in which men and women begin a relationship. At first you may not know that the other person is your someone special so you continue blithely and yes, selfishly, dating others simultaneously. Then, in the moment, one of your prospects asks you are you seeing other people. Wham! This question forces a spot assessment. Do you really care about this person? Let’s say suddenly you realize that damnit, you do care and a lot! O shit! You are dating multiple people! Crap! But, hey, you don’t really care about the others you are seeing right now. Only this one. This one feels right! — This is coupled with another assessment. If you think the person asking is the jealous type, and most of us are to some degree, you both don’t want to hurt their feelings and you want to preserve the peace in the relationship. To me this culprit falls on the GOOD side of lying, despite a few selfish reasons mixxed in. The BAD side is the person who decides actively to lie to keep a good thing going. The BAD lying is singly concerned about themsleves and places no lasting value on the relationship other than immediate personal gain. The GOOD liar is pointed out precisely by the fact that they lie on some level, even if they are self-delusional, to PROTECT their relationship for both parties. All of that is just my judgement.
So, if a liar spends massive time and energy protecting the relationship despite their lies, the person lied to has a choice. Focus on the negative and condemn the liar when its clear one of the reasons they are lying is that they do vlaue the relationship OR to focus on the positive and declare that they think its precious the other party lied to protect the relationship and lovingly let them off the inverse pyramid they are building.
I do think that once the accepting partner does this, it is important that the liar declare their lie and indicate that they are sorry. The sorry/forgivness order is unimportant. In a valued relationship the chronological order of these event is somthing many folks get stuck on. I suggest if an offending partner will not say they are sorry, then try genuinely forgiving them anyway if you love them. Then do not demand but wait for an apology.
So for me the judgement call is another gut check. Use your intuition and decide whether 5 of 9 judges in your conscience can see the good in the lie. It really boils down to forgiveness and not expecting your relationship partner to be inhumanly perfect.
I’ve spent months and years with couples in therapy trying to convince offended parties not to continue torturing their lying partners. Either forgive them or leave the relationship. I didn’t say forget the lie or open oneself to more lies. Just make sure that your liar’s desperate lie isn’t mostly about saving their precious (to them) relationship with you before you condemn them to the gulag of permanent personal scorn. After all, how dare they go to extremes for you?
Thanks for the well thought out comment… I can see that it’s one of the things you really have strong opinions about.
Lying seems to be one of those polarizing relationship issues but ultimately I think it comes down to what are you willing to accept. Some people are ok with white lies, others get over the whoppers. Some feel betrayed by it all. Forgiveness is crucial — absolutely. Whether you decide to continue in the relationship or not. Personally, if someone lies to “protect” me, it feels much more like they were trying to protect themselves from the consequences of telling the truth about whatever it is they were lying about. I’d much rather just have the truth and thereby know what I need to know. My ability to trust my partner is elemental to my ability to continue investing and trusting in our relationship. I don’t want to live my life double checking to see if he is telling the truth or not. But that’s just me… not everyone feels the same way. 